How do you get "punch"?

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tcatzere
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

How do you get "punch"?

Post by tcatzere »

What are the key components to getting a real snap and punchy crispness in a recording? I'm thinking along the lines of the Disco sound of the early 80's?
HarBal
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Re: How do you get "punch"?

Post by HarBal »

Hi Tom,

Interesting question. To my ears, punch comes from having a lot of dynamic transient material. From an instrument perspective, usually from percussive instruments, which have notoriously large transients. These days masters are so squashed I can't recall hearing a new recording with punch in ages.

Tracks from the 80's have average levels much lower than now so despite those recordings being typically more compressed in tracking and mixing stages as now, they have considerably more transient material than most current releases. Just open up a track from the 80's and one now and compare the look of the time line. One's a 4 by 2 (as Earle would say) and the other is a mountain range. That difference is predominantly the reason why punch is lacking in most commercial recordings these days, so if you want punch don't push for high average levels and don't over limit or compress percussive instruments.

This was all may very real to me about a week ago when I was asked to suggest a filter for a track someone was working on. When I heard the punch from the uncompressed drum kit I was gob smacked! I'm so used to not hearing that sort of dynamic I was startled by it and was quickly reminded of what I miss!

Cheers,


Paavo.

PS - If you want punch out of a kick drum but want to get louder recordings shelve the bottom end below about 70Hz. That will preserve most of the transient defining the punch but reduce the resonant power to allow for higher levels without clipping.
tcatzere
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

Re: How do you get "punch"?

Post by tcatzere »

Thanks, Paavo, for the insight. Actually, I kind of wondered if that might not be a factor -- the missing ingredient. I'll have to play around with that a little. -Tom
SkipB
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:07 am
Location: Gray,La

Re: How do you get "punch"?

Post by SkipB »

I agree wholeheartedly with Paavo on this. Although I usually roll off around 50hz unless I want to mabe increase the kick,or tom especially in high energy rock music. Now Rap,and Hiphop do usually use lower frequencies, but its not something you can hear readily without a sub woofer and then your only feeling it. If your Monitors lowest freqency is say 65hz as most available Monitors are except mabe for a pair of high dollar full range, then all you will be doing is limiting Bandwidth by Boosting at lower frequencies. Also recording levels do make a difference. In my opinion the perfect level you can work with would be anywhere between -20 and -14db. That gives you plenty of room to do your magic and maintain dynamics. This would be an ideal situation but alas it usually does not happen. Everyone won'ts there music to be loud and proud even if it means sacrificing dynamics.Just my 2 cents. Regards Skip Balltzglier
"Who's worried about the marsh when your up to your waist in Alligators"
HarBal
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Re: How do you get "punch"?

Post by HarBal »

My preferred mastering level would average around -14 to -13dB. I can tolerate up to -11dB quite happily though. Anything beyond that starts to sound squashed and lifeless to my ears but unfortunately the current practice is levels of around -7dB and that is predominantly why most new commercial CD's disappoint me no end. I can hear the semblance of a quality recording and mix ruined by volume maximisation. Sooner they end this futile pursuit of louder recordings the better as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers,


Paavo.

PS - If the figures above confuse they are dB relative full scale sine (as the standard says) rather than dB relative full scale square wave as some applications actually use. Subtract 3dB and you'll get the full scale square values (-17,-16,-14,-10)
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