the limiter -should it be doing this

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shanecgriffo
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:32 am
Location: surfcoast australia

the limiter -should it be doing this

Post by shanecgriffo »

i loaded a file in har-bal after it had gone through my mastering chain and had been limited by psp's xenon limiter plug (limited to ceiling -0.3db)
i wanted to just check all my frequencies were in check and maybe make a fine adjustment in the low mid range in harbal after adding a little warmth/color during mastering.
I notice tho that the limiter in harbal was showing some action (the red meter blocks) and i wonder why this would happen if i (supposedly) have no peaks over -.3db in the file.
I don't really want to limit twice,.. does it mean harbal is unsuitable in this situation?
HarBal
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Re: the limiter -should it be doing this

Post by HarBal »

Hello Shane,

It's not the limiter. To demonstrate open your track and select file/Filter/New. Then play your track. I believe now you will find the limiter not displaying any action.

The act of doing any filtering will alter the peak swing of your track waveform. With an out-ceiling of only 0.3dB to work with their simply isn't enough available headroom to take up the needed space for the filter changes you made in your final track.

you have three possible options. 1) do all your EQ'ng processing before final limiting and none after, 2) lower your outceiling more to give you extra room for your post limiting touch ups and 3) don't worry about the HarBal limiter cutting in on your touch ups and just live with it. The amount of limiting occuring is likely to be pretty small overall.

The one observation I'd make is that under normal circumstances, once a track is EQ'd prior to limiting it doesn't need touch ups after limiting. The caveat is when excessive limiting and or compression is applied to bring up track RMS levels, harshness can creep back in giving rise to the desire for a final touch up. With sensible final master levels this is never the case though most masters these days aren't what I'd call sensible and usually far from it.

I guess if you want to partake in the loudness war then you may just have to do that.

Cheers,


Paavo.
shanecgriffo
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:32 am
Location: surfcoast australia

Re: the limiter -should it be doing this

Post by shanecgriffo »

thanks, i will consider those options , also i made a mistake and limited with a ceiling of only- 0.03db not -0.3 as stated. I was just trialling the version of xenon (they have it on sale at the minute) and the decimal place snuck by me :)
So even tho har bal keeps the volume level 'unchanged' during eq adjustments there will be some change (slight?)in peak output? Is this what you are saying?
thanks
HarBal
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Re: the limiter -should it be doing this

Post by HarBal »

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Though the loudness levels are maintained to be constant, any non-flat EQ applied to the track will result in a change in the peak levels.

An easy way to see this is to take a contemporary mastered track (ie. like loudness wars era), load it into your DAW and reduce the volume by 3dB. Now save it and then open it in Har-Bal and do some minor EQ'ing on the track and write out the result. Then load it back into your DAW. Do you notice any difference in the way the track time line looks?

Though nominally the same you should note that the one prior to Har-Bal is a dead flat envelope whilst the one after Har-Bal has undulations in the envelope. That is the effect of filtering. It's not peculiar to Har-Bal. Any filtering will do that and the higher the Q the filtering the greater the change in peak levels is likely.

cheers,


Paavo.
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