The 2.3 version

This area of the Forum is where you can post your suggestions and ideas for future update releases of Har-Bal, as well as any gripes you may have on the software, its useability and its interface.
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MERLIN
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The 2.3 version

Post by MERLIN »

I think it would be useful if we could have a trace of 1 octave resolution behind the 12 octave resolution, so that we can keep in check the flow of the original spectrum.
HarBal
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Post by HarBal »

That's a very good idea. I'll keep it in mind for the re-write.

Thanks,


Paavo.
MERLIN
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Post by MERLIN »

Excellent :)
Jammerg
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Post by Jammerg »

That sounds like it could be a major help to have the actual wave you're currently working on as a guide to shape it. I also think that could go a long ways towards making this program more user friendly to novices.

I've been toying with that basic idea ever since the first version with the multiple spectrum resolutions with great results, though nowhere near as accurate as I could if I simply had a setting to switch the background trace to a different res setting.

What I've been doing is to take a basic Pink noise sample wave and load it as the Source with my target audio as the Reference. Then I set it to 1 oct resolution and shape the Pink Noise sample to closely match the audio's pattern. (to get my basic guideline reference pattern to help me work) But since both traces (Source and Reference) are linked in res settings, I have to then switch to the 1/12 oct res setting and try and smooth out the newly formed Pink Noise pattern to roughly what it was at 1 oct.

If only we could have control over the resolution visually of the background Reference trace, it'd be so easy to get more predictible and accurate guidelines while also avoiding the temtations for perfect matches that some have had. What I've been doing does help somewhat, but it's a major hassle to do for each problem song and it's not as good as a true 1 oct (or 1/3 oct) trace behind the 1/12 oct front Source. I actually got the idea from the included advanced tutorial and have been toying with it ever since.

It'd also be pretty cool to simply load in a really nice sounding wav as a Ref, set it to 1 oct or maybe even 1/3rd oct, then set the front Source to 1/12 oct, use Empathetic Equalisation or even simply use the EQ cursor to loosely make the Source "ride" along the 1 oct guide without actually exactly copying the Reference. It might help even out a bunch of similar recordings to one standard among them.

Any idea at all of how long it could be until this feature could be added? Either as a toggle to simply set background trace to 1 oct or a separate resolution setting for Source/Reference. Either way would work quite nicely, I'd think. 8)
Jammerg
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Post by Jammerg »

I don't suppose there ever was a very early versoin of Har-Bar that only supported 1 oct resolution, or heck, even 1/3rd would sure help out? (I found this site around 2.0's version, so....)

The reason I ask is that I realized today that if you load in a wav into v2.2 (which only supported 1/6th oct I believe) and then load that particular 2.2 version "anl" into Har-Bal 2.3 as a background ref, it stays at 1/6th oct all the time. It's sorta a quirk left over from older versions I guess.

If there was even an early version that only had 1/3rd oct support, that could help out a lot to have a constant 1/3rd version in the background, simply by loading your wav into a old program, which creates that version's anl file, load that into the current version as a Ref and you're good to go. Honestly, getting this feature to work shouldn't be all that difficult really, since anyone can get constant 1/6th res Ref's quite easily to work with no mod's at all. Getting a constant 1 oct background Ref would be absolutely idea though.

Right now I'm kinda toying with ideas dealing with Pink Noise samples molded into the shape of the particular song's general pattern that I'm remastering, but it'll never compare to the true shape of the actual wave you're currently working on.

P.S. One tip for anyone that wants to try this, be SURE to rename that older anl file after closing v2.2 to something other than the current file (ie. test ref.anl or the like) so it doesn't get changed into the v2.3's flexible multi res format.
Jammerg
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Post by Jammerg »

UPDATE: Ok, I have just figured out how to have a "Static" 1 octave resolution trace of the exact file behind the 1/12th octave resolution (or any res you change to) of the same file in front. It's a bit of a hassle, but it does work and will let anyone that is interested in the feature being added test it out to see if it's worth it or not.

Note: You do however have to have a copy of Har-Bal v2.2 or older still around in order for this to work, but being that it's only up to v2.3 that shouldn't be too hard.

Here's what you got to do:

1. Open the wav in the older v2.2 Har-Bal then close program. (no need to save, simply load it in as it'll create a "anl" file that is locked in 1/6th oct resolution)

2. Rename that particular "anl" file (it'll be named the exact name of the wav, btw) to something like Peak Reference.anl or whatever. (don't skip this or it'll get converted by v2.3 to flexible resolution)

3. Load your wav file you plan on working with as the background Reference.

4. Load that v2.2 custom named anl file as the forground file.

5. Switch resolution to 1 oct. (it should ONLY change the background wav ref and not affect the forground anl file if everything's working right so far)

6. Now you've got to tweak that 1/6th's oct file to match the background Ref at 1 octave resolution and when done, save that as an Eq Filter.

7. Load your wav file now as the main forground file and load that custom v2.2 anl + the Eq Filter file (together) as the background ref. (you have the option of adding a filter in along with the anl file together in the Open Reference dialog box)


You should now have an exact "static" 1 Octave spectrum resolution Reference of the same file you're working on in front and you can change resolutions at will. I'd hate to do this for every file, but it really doesn't take all that long to do (it did indeed help me nail one problem file so far) and it'll at least let you know if it's a viable addition for a new version.

Hope that helps you out MERLIN. 8)
HarBal
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Post by HarBal »

Jammerg wrote:... Honestly, getting this feature to work shouldn't be all that difficult really, since anyone can get constant 1/6th res Ref's quite easily to work with no mod's at all. Getting a constant 1 oct background Ref would be absolutely idea though...


Absolutely, it isn't difficult, but any time I spend digressing on minor feature enhancements to version 2.3 takes away from time spent working on the Har-Bal redevelopment. As far as I'm concerned, the current Har-Bal code base has reached the end of the line and needs major architectural change to be able to expand into our future possibilities and as such, that code base is frozen, only to be worked upon in the event of critical bug fixes. I have to draw the line somewhere. If I don't I'll be forever dithering between two projects and Har-Bal 3 will never see the light of day, not to forget all those Mac users patiently waiting for Mac Har-Bal 3.

As I said before, I like you idea and will incorporate it into the new version in some form or other but the new version is a complete re-write which will take much time to complete. Sorry to disappoint you.

Regards,


Paavo.
Jammerg
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Post by Jammerg »

That's cool and I can live with the way it is and also agree a major re-write and Mac support, definately should take priorty and if you could incorporate this in some way or another in that total re-write too, awesome. I'm still more than happy with what it can do already and just can't wait to see what's coming next. :wink:

As long as I've figured out a "down and dirty" method of doing it manually (and I think probably just as accurate, if not more time consuming), that's good enough for me on the few times where I feel it might really help out. I honestly don't know if it would be advisable to use as a standard practice for every track either. I'm going to keep messing around with it for awhile and see if it actually really does help or just get in the way.

I'm just so glad you squeezed in v2.3 before going to the total re-write. This version blows 2.2 out of the water and that was pretty handy already. Har-Bal 3.0... man, I can't wait for that one to be finished.
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