Well, I have an awesome M-Audio Bx10s Subwoofer to go along with my BX8a's. I am finally able to hear the low-end quite clearly on music. I was trying to find a good frequency to set the subwoofer at so that I could feel the low thump and punch of bass and kicks. I found the perfect setting was at 120hz after listening to alot of trance, hiphop and dance music CDs (current). But isn't 120 too high for a subwoofer? (its max setting is 200Hz). I read in the manual that the subwoofer should be set about 10Hz higher than the studio monitors... which would be about 50-60Hz... however, when I set it that low, I don't get enough thump in my butt and chest to where I can feel it as if at a club. I have the subwoofer right under me at the apex of a triangle; my monitors being on the opposite ends of a 60 degree triangle--facing my ears.
So on one of my songs where the bass and kick hit perfectly... I set the subwoofer back at 60Hz but then I have to crank the volume on the subwoofer to +12db to get that same punch as if I had it at 120Hz with the volume set to +0db. So is 120Hz too high?
Another issue/question I have is that I found out during that same song, when I have the sub set at 60, that the bottom end of the bass-line seems to play against the kick in a really bad way. Does this mean I need to tame those lower frequencies of bass so that it plays nicely with the kick? Because, again, when I have subwoofer set at 120hz, the bass and kick gels perfectly.
if you need a clip of the song, let me know.
V/R,
Jrel
http://www.myspace.com/jrelmusic
Question on Subwoofer Freq Setting and Usage
Re: Question on Subwoofer Freq Setting and Usage
I suspect your "bass-line seems to play against the kick in a really bad way" because of phasing issues. What happens when you reverse the phasing between the sub and the main speakers.
Also, putting the sub underneath you is not a great idea for a number of reasons, phasing being one but another being that you may be sitting in a room anti-node (ie. room mode null) which will have the effect of cancelling out part of the sub-woofer energy. Try moving it toward the wall in front of you but in between the monitors. You can move it toward one side more than the other if crossed low enough but if crossed at 120Hz and off to one side you might find the bass image becomes unbalanced. You'll need to experiment to see if this will be a problem.
Also, crossing at 120Hz may well produce a better more cohesive response than 60Hz depending on the nature of the response of your speakers. If they roll off at 60Hz and you'll have significant phase delay due to that roll off which may have phasing implications. Furthermore, the phase response is likely to be quite non-linear at the lower cutoff. By moving up to 120Hz you might get a better crossover performance by virtue of less added phase from the speaker response, but that all depends on whether you have an electronic crossover cutting out feed below 120Hz going to your main monitors.
regards,
Paavo.
Also, putting the sub underneath you is not a great idea for a number of reasons, phasing being one but another being that you may be sitting in a room anti-node (ie. room mode null) which will have the effect of cancelling out part of the sub-woofer energy. Try moving it toward the wall in front of you but in between the monitors. You can move it toward one side more than the other if crossed low enough but if crossed at 120Hz and off to one side you might find the bass image becomes unbalanced. You'll need to experiment to see if this will be a problem.
Also, crossing at 120Hz may well produce a better more cohesive response than 60Hz depending on the nature of the response of your speakers. If they roll off at 60Hz and you'll have significant phase delay due to that roll off which may have phasing implications. Furthermore, the phase response is likely to be quite non-linear at the lower cutoff. By moving up to 120Hz you might get a better crossover performance by virtue of less added phase from the speaker response, but that all depends on whether you have an electronic crossover cutting out feed below 120Hz going to your main monitors.
regards,
Paavo.
Re: Question on Subwoofer Freq Setting and Usage
Thank you for the reply. I'll try everything later after work. Actually, the bass-line against the kick issue is that when I have the subwoofer turned down to 50-60Hz, I can feel the bass-line playing correctly... but it is delayed enough to where it is not in time. But when I turn the subwoofer freq back up to 80+, then I don't feel the bass-line moving out-of-time. Does that make sense? Perhaps I have to create a steep low-shelf curve on the bass track to cure that issue? I already have a 35hz filter drawn down to 20Hz set in Har-bal as per the Har-bal (or Hdztrz mastering) tutorial.
Re: Question on Subwoofer Freq Setting and Usage
That may be a phasing issue or it may be a room issue. If you're room has strong modes and your coupling to one with your subwoofer that behaviour is perfectly possible, because a room mode typically has a long lived transient response and a significant rise time, the net result of which can be to shift (delay) the timing of bass parts significantly.
If that is the case you will need to experiment with the positioning of your subwoofer so that it doesn't couple strongly to your room modes. That means finding a location that is neither a nodal or anti-nodal point for your troublesome modes (if you position on a nodal point you'll have boomy bass and if you position on an anti-nodal point you'll have a bass hole).
Cheers,
Paavo.
If that is the case you will need to experiment with the positioning of your subwoofer so that it doesn't couple strongly to your room modes. That means finding a location that is neither a nodal or anti-nodal point for your troublesome modes (if you position on a nodal point you'll have boomy bass and if you position on an anti-nodal point you'll have a bass hole).
Cheers,
Paavo.
Re: Question on Subwoofer Freq Setting and Usage
I figured out my issue; pretty silly actually. I accidentally turned on my subwoofer w/o the monitors on a song and then put it into the proper phase. I turned down the volume to +0db, and then turned on the monitors. The monitors were really loud again...so I looked on the back of them and noticed they were both jacked up +10db. I could have sworn they were set to 0 when I installed them, but whatever, the truth was in front of my eyes. I set both back to +0db and that fixed the loudness issue between the subwoofer and monitors. I fiddled around with the subwoofer freq and volume; and found a good level of -5db for the subwoofer plus 70Hz for the subwoofer.