matching loudness with harbal and t-racks

[shep9040]

Okay, I've Harbal-ized two songs and used the Opto+1/2inch setting in T-Racks to master them, and one of the two songs is about a decibal louder than the other. The difference is noticable, but I like the sound of both files individually. How do I get the softer file to match the louder one? I am really unsure of how to most effectively alter parameters in the T-Racks preset- will I simply crush the file if I, for instance, increase the limiter's input drive? I have noticed that, pre-T-Racks mastering, the louder file is about 2db's louder. Should I put the softer file back into Sonar and try to increase its volume before I put it through the T-Racks compressor/limiter?

Help!
-Shep Shepard

[har-bal]

Okay, I've Harbal-ized two songs and used the Opto+1/2inch setting in T-Racks to master them, and one of the two songs is about a decibal louder than the other. The difference is noticable, but I like the sound of both files individually. How do I get the softer file to match the louder one? I am really unsure of how to most effectively alter parameters in the T-Racks preset- will I simply crush the file if I, for instance, increase the limiter's input drive? I have noticed that, pre-T-Racks mastering, the louder file is about 2db's louder. Should I put the softer file back into Sonar and try to increase its volume before I put it through the T-Racks compressor/limiter?

Help!
-Shep Shepard

Shep

Here is what you can do. The difference in average RMS can be taken care of just using the limiter.

If one song has an average RMS of -12.23 and the other is -14.60, you obviously want to change the RMS of the song that is -14.60 to match the -12.23
Put the numbers into a calculator and subtract them from each other. The difference will be -2.37
This tells you that you if you set your threshold to -2.37 and your outceiling to -0.1 (always) your average RMS (loudness) will be equal.

You can actually input the numbers into any limiter.

Cheers

Earle

[shep9040]

Thanks Earle. My problem is that T-Racks is set up like a traditional analog processor, so it doesn't have the same parameters set up like the digital limiters I've used does- I can't simply go in and set the threshold and outceiling in it the way you describe. I do have access to some other software limiters, though, so I guess I could use one of those to make my final adjustments after I've put the file through T-Racks- as long as I stay in the 24 bit realm until I dither down on my final adjustment, this shouldn't be a problem, right?

Thanks for the continuing education you provide here. I've learned more on this site about mastering than I have anywhere else.

-Shep

[har-bal]

Thanks Earle. My problem is that T-Racks is set up like a traditional analog processor, so it doesn't have the same parameters set up like the digital limiters I've used does- I can't simply go in and set the threshold and outceiling in it the way you describe. I do have access to some other software limiters, though, so I guess I could use one of those to make my final adjustments after I've put the file through T-Racks- as long as I stay in the 24 bit realm until I dither down on my final adjustment, this shouldn't be a problem, right?

Thanks for the continuing education you provide here. I've learned more on this site about mastering than I have anywhere else.

-Shep

Shep

That is correct. You can use another limIter just to make your final adjustment. It would be great if you had L2. Glad you are mastering your craft.

I think we are all learning from each other here. It is definately a collaborative venture.

Cheers

Earle

[fbc]

Please tell me (non t-rack user), what is 'threshold' on the t-racks limiter ??

I expected threshold to be some point, where something starts to work, like compression, how is this connected with loudness matching?

Is 'threshold' just another name for input level/gain ?

regards
Flemming

[har-bal]

Please tell me (non t-rack user), what is 'threshold' on the t-racks limiter ??

I expected threshold to be some point, where something starts to work, like compression, how is this connected with loudness matching?

Is 'threshold' just another name for input level/gain ?

regards
Flemming

Flemming

You are right in some respects but let me point out something. It is very possible to have two songs with the same average RMS yet the perceived volume is very different.
Load a wave file into Wavelab or any sound editing program. Look at the meter. Notice the song peaks and then returns to normal and then peaks .....kind of like a cycle. The distance between the peak and average is called the dynamic range. If you close this gap using either a compressor or a limiter it would appear the song becomes louder without going past the peak. You are just bringing up the rear (so to speak) It is result of the reduction of the dynamic range.

Sometimes the dynamic range is just 3dbs which is way too loud and of course this doesn't leave room for the track to breathe.
If you load a file into Har-Bal and apply the match loudness feature it is telling you what the actual dynamic range (reduction of threshold) would need to be to have the same perceived loudness. The reason we tell folks to simply make a note of this number and return it to zero is because there is no limiter built into Har-Bal and we would not want you to have your track clipping.

So it is much easier to just feed the number into your limiter and observe the reduction of the dynamic range. Make sure the reference file you are using isn't overly loud.
Believe it or not I usually use a reference file from the late nineties as a guide when I am doing an album because a lot of tracks these days are just plain crushed to death.

Cheers

Earle