Auto Spectrum Matching... again

[Jay]

Hi Paavo and Earle,

I know this topic has come up several times, and I realize you fear "misuse" of the product. However, I'd like to address a different scenario in which spectrum matching would be extremely helpful. Lately I've been using HB to match the spectrum of tracks which have had some effect added -- in particular, amp modelers. Many of these plugins do nothing more than apply some kind of EQ/envelope. What I've been doing is matching the spectrum in HB and producing WAVs so I can disable the plugin but still have the sound I want and free up the CPU to work on other stuff during mixing.

My typical process is to dial in the sound I like on the plug, then build a WAV of the track in question and open it up in HB, then start dragging like crazy to match the spectrum. As you can imagine, this is rather time consuming since most of the time the spectrum has been changed fairly significantly by the plugin. It would be an enormous time saver to be able to automatically match the spectrum.

I hope you guys aren't still afraid of this feature. I think *any* feature in any software can be misused. It would be unfortunate to withhold something from users when it's likely that only a small number would "misuse" the feature (I'm not entirely comfortable with the word "misuse"). And I think it's extremely unlikely that an engineer would just match the spectrum of another song and be done with it, then give the finished product to the client hoping the client will think it sounds good, and then blame it on HB if a client complains about the quality of the mix. Please don't make the rest of us pay for someone who'd be stupid enough to do that!

So, seriously guys, HB can (and does) have more uses than just a mastering tool. I and many others would be very happy if you added this feature.

Thanks for your consideration,
Jay

[zumbido]

Why don't you render or bounce the track with the plug-ins?

Seems like that would be a more efficient method.

[Jay]

Why don't you render or bounce the track with the plug-ins?

Seems like that would be a more efficient method.

Of course you're right; it often is. I kinda had a mental slip when I typed this post -- got distracted. I meant to mention that, in some instances, the quality of the plug doesn't sound great to me, while the Har-Balized version sounds better/cleaner... subtle, but noticeable. I also meant to mention the cases where you have a WAV which you didn't produce (e.g., a guitar from a CD you like), and being able to quickly get in the ball park of the tone you're trying to emulate would be quite helpful. In any case, it really seems like auto spectrum matching would be quite useful.

Jay

[Jay]

Not sure how to interpret the absence of a response from Earle or Paavo here. I'll mention another case where spectrum matching would be very helpful.

I recently purchased a sample library. One of the sounds I'm focusing on for a couple of tunes is a cello. I used to use a Soundfont version of a cello which has a tone I like very much, but the new sound is more realistic WRT note attacks, however I don't like the tone as much. So, I rendered both the Soundfont version and the new version of the cello and opened them up in Har-Bal and started dragging. Some time later, I had matched the spectrum of the new sound to that of the old one, but it was tedious since the spectrums were considerably different. However, the tone was now what I was looking for.

I'd like to know, once again, if you would please consider a spectrum matching feature. If your lack of response to this thread was because you have no intention of implementing such a feature, please let me know, and I'll stop wasting space on the forum.

Thanks,
Jay

[mflorio]

Maybe they could make it a hidden, undocumented feature.

Mike

[Jay]

Maybe they could make it a hidden, undocumented feature.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Well, that'd be better than nothing, but I still don't see why it shouldn't be as exposed as any other feature. Spend 15 minutes randomly web surfing, and you'll surely find a number of sites that misuse javascript or Flash, but those are valuable tools in the web developers arsenal, and not having them would frustrate more people than it would benefit.

I just don't see how such a useful feature as spectrum matching would be any more or less detrimental than any other feature of Har-Bal. Some people will use software without putting much thought into it no matter what, and I'm sure some are doing that now with Har-Bal. Having auto spectrum matching will simply speed up a process that some are doing already. If there are current Har-Bal users who believe, despite Earle's and Paavo's warnings, that *exactly* matching the curve of another song is a beneficial procedure when they master, having an auto matching feature won't change their mind... just as having an auto matching feature won't make someone -- such as myself -- believe that one should just thoughtlessly match another song's spectrum and consider their EQ mastering done. However, for applications as I've mentioned above, auto spectrum matching would be a great time saver and would expand Har-Bal's functionality and usefulness.

Almost any feature can be misused, but I really hope Earle and Paavo see the benefits of this proposed feature.

Jay

[HarBal]

Hi Jay & Mike,

I consider myself reasonably pragmatic and can see that spectrum matching in one form or another could be useful. I guess the reason I haven't put it in yet is because I believe there's a better way but haven't come up with the algorithm to do it yet. I may well just put in the variety you seek at some stage or another but it won't be up front (a meagre attempt to discourage misuse). My appologies if it sounds as though I'm dragging my feet on this one. I'm listening but I've had a lot on my plate in this last year, much litttle to do with Har-Bal. I'll try and get things rolling.

Regards,


Paavo.

[Jay]

Thanks, Paavo. Just wanted to know whether you guys were listening, so thanks for responding. What exactly does "much little to do with Har-Bal" mean?

Hope your plate is filled with interesting stuff.

Jay

[HarBal]

"Much little to do with Har-Bal" is a range of different things. Some work fixing up the hobby farm, some work finishing off the internals of the house, some work figuring out how to fix the acoustics of my room and fixing it, some work laying a concrete slab in a shed, child care duties 2 days a week, a day job 3 days a week and 3 months of chronic headache.

The health issue I resolved myself with not a lot of help from my doctor. It turns out that this was drug induced. About 5% of the headache suffering population are succeptible to a withdrawal headache if they use painkillers for too long. How long is too long I'm not sure, in my case, or anyone else. All I know is that I was taking Ibuprofen for eyestrain headaches (before I got reading glasses) and ended up in a situation where I had to take 1 pill every eight hours or else I'd end up with a horrendous migraine headache, but even though I was on the drug I still had low level pain and it seemed to be getting worse. I did a search on the web withdrawal from pain killers and found out about this. I tried going off about a month ago but felt too sick and gave up. Then I tried again and felt incapable of eating or drinking, vomited anything I took in (water included) had the biggest migraine headache I've ever experienced and was seriously considering checking into hospital. This was after going without Ibuprofen for about 32 hours. I then took two aspirin tablets and the migrain and nausea vanished in about 15 minutes. Then I was able to eat and drink pretty much as normal except for a feeling of being hung over from a drinking binge. I've been pretty much off painkillers since then (and off Ibuprofen totally) except for one aspirin to treat a hayfever induced headache from the smell of certain flowers in enclosed spaces. For anyone having a daily headache, you might want to read this:

http://www.gb42.com/ynotMedicationOveruseHeadache.html

So, that is pretty much the state of "things other than Har-Bal". I'm planning on doing more Har-Bal stuff now that I can think straight.

Cheers,


Paavo.

[dbmasters]

argh, headaches are THE WORST...hope you feel better Paavo, the mastering world needs you!

ALWAYS take care of yourself and your family first...basic rule of life.

[Glenn]

Hi

Glad to hear that the headaches have been sorted, hope our article helped!

Glenn Bruce,
Editor, Pain Talk ( http://www.pain-talk.co.uk )
(publishers of the article linked above)
( http://www.gb42.com/ynotMedicationOveruseHeadache.html )

[Jay]

All I know is that I was taking Ibuprofen for eyestrain headaches (before I got reading glasses) and ended up in a situation where I had to take 1 pill every eight hours or else I'd end up with a horrendous migraine headache, but even though I was on the drug I still had low level pain and it seemed to be getting worse.

Whoa! Glad you got that worked out, Paavo. I gotta tell my wife this. She immediately goes for painkillers when she has any kind of headache whereas I rough it unless it prevents me from functioning. I tell her I don't like to take drugs because I assume my body is trying to tell me something when it hurts, and I'd rather listen than put in ear plugs (i.e., take a drug).

Well, good luck, Paavo, and keep us posted.

Jay

[HarBal]

Thanks for the moral support! Yeah, going for painkillers without addressing the cause is a bad idea, although sometimes, for whatever reason, we're tempted too. I'm my case trying to do work when I should have been resting. I've learn't my lesson the hard way and will be paying more attention to what my body is telling me.

Regards,


Paavo.

[HarBal]

Hi

Glad to hear that the headaches have been sorted, hope our article helped!

Glenn Bruce,
Editor, Pain Talk ( http://www.pain-talk.co.uk )
(publishers of the article linked above)
( http://www.gb42.com/ynotMedicationOveruseHeadache.html )

Hi Glenn,

The article certainly did help, though to tell you the truth I found yours after I'd gone off the drug. I initially found a different article saying similar things a while back but I went looking for it again as a printout to give to my doctor in a letter I haven't yet written, I found yours, which is a better article anyway.

Did you post this reply cos you found my post by accident, or are you a Har-Bal user? Small world maybe?

Thanks again, for the moral support and the excellent article.

Paavo.

[Robert H]

I was against EQ matching initially but not anymore. Ive been using Voxengo curve EQ for specific instruments matched with eq from a CD source. The results are interesting and sometimes useable. Ive also used the eq match on a stereo master using curve eq. The results are unpredictable and as of yet I have not eq matched a whole mix. Surely the user will decide if they want to do this on their stereo master but I suspect that most wont due to the unpredictable results. However using it individual instruments is another matter.

Paavo, glad to hear you have got to the bottom of your headache problems.