Bad mixes aargh!!!

Ged Leitch · Post by **Ged Leitch** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:53 pm

Hi Earle, been working on what i would call an "ununiform" mix recently, i sent you a email a while back with a yousendit link, dont think you got it though.
it's like theres been compression on the snare,vox guitars etc, but the bass gtr and kick seem to have way too much dynamic range.
tried the standard mb compression but to no avail, tonight i sculpted a filter for it using a pixies tune as a ref, (similar instruments) and it is sounding much better.
But i still think it would have sounded much better if the low end instruments were mixed and compressed better to start.
Any ideas as to how best to deal with tracks such as these?
cheers,
Ged.

Ged Leitch · Post by **Ged Leitch** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:39 pm

Also, i've noticed on a lot of rock tracks(commercial releases) theres usually always a fair narrow dip around 90hz, 150hz, i wonder why this is? is it the mastering engineer eq ing out certain resonances that would not translate well on a home system???
I've had to do this occasionally on customers mixes and was surprised to see other tracks looking similar in the spectrum.

HarBal · Post by **HarBal** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:27 pm

That could well be the case. The most problematic room resonance issue in most domestic environments is the floor to ceiling mode. As most homes are constructed with a floor to ceiling height of around 2.3-2.5m which corresponds to resonances at around 138-150Hz. The other possibility is that the environment that it was recorded and mixed in had resonances in that range.

Regards,

Paavo.

zumbido · Post by **zumbido** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:24 pm

Interesting comment about the ceiling-to-floor mode.

What I've noticed when 'Har-Bal'-izing some mixes brought to me is the opposite. There are bumps at approximately 70, 140, 210 and 280 Hz. The one at 140 Hz. being the loudest.

I attribute this to the clients ears and monitors being in the middle of the ceiling-to-floor and the fact that a 70 Hz. wave needs about 16 feet to fully develop. But, with the 8 foot ceiling the wave, in effect, cancels itself out. So, people 'add' in this frequency to 'fill in' what they can't hear in their room. This results in over-exaggeration in these frequencies.

I have a 'classic' screen capture of Har-Bal, somewhere, that I'll post of such a mix.

Of course, after I applied Har-Bal to the mix, the client took the mastered file back to their room and complained about the lack of bass. I tried to explain to no avail.

You can't win if the client only intends on only listening to his masterpiece in his own room.

HarBal · Post by **HarBal** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:00 am

I guess the only response to them is to ask them how a "classic" commercial recording in the same genre sounds in there setup and perhaps demo it in yours (if at all possible). Then it should take a lot less explaining to point out that they have a problem in their setup. But if they're not willing to listen then there won't be anything you could say to convince them.

Paavo.

zumbido · Post by **zumbido** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:03 pm

Here's a screen capture of a 'Before & After":

The 'blue' is what was given to me. This indicates problems in the mixing environment.

The 'green' is the adjustment with Har-bal.

Something like this, to me, would suggest that a control room redesign and remix is in order before mastering.

Ged Leitch · Post by **Ged Leitch** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:54 pm

zumbido wrote:Here's a screen capture of a 'Before & After":

The 'blue' is what was given to me. This indicates problems in the mixing environment.

The 'green' is the adjustment with Har-bal.

Something like this, to me, would suggest that a control room redesign and remix is in order before mastering.

Hey cheers Zumbido for the screenshot, that one is almost identical to the problem mix i had..but i think it's also a "dynamic" problem too, i still think faster or more compression on the bass gtr and kick drum while "mixing! would have helped alot.
\cheers man.

HarBal · Post by **HarBal** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:28 pm

With that level of deep notching in the room response I'd suggest it is a speaker placement issue. They need to experiment with speaker placement a bit more to find a better response. It looks as though they are position right on an anti-node so most of the energy is cancelled out.

Paavo.

DjSolstice · Post by **DjSolstice** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:35 pm

The actual sounds you use in the first place determine how they will fit into the mix. You can sometimes try all the compression and eq in the world to get your kick to fit better in the mix and seem punchier and phatter, but it just might not have the right set of frequencies in the sound itself, so you end up having to affect the rest of the song to compensate.

Im not sure how you might work, if you are recording a like band and plan on using the original kicks and nothing but those, it can be harder to get the to fit in. Actually layering and engineering kicks is an art which can really make a difference. This also applies to many other key instruments such as the snare or clap. I produce a lot of RnB, Urban music as well as House music. The snare and claps need to cut through the mixes really well, so layeing the sounds with other snares or claps can help the sound cut through. Also continually check how the level of the meter responds when you add instruments. Try nd aim to get a more clear cutting sound without making it rise too much, because it will possibly be the change in volume which is making it cut through rather than the sound tibre itself, therefore when yo uraise the whole track level to mastering levels, the sound will get drowned out.

Sol

Ged Leitch · Post by **Ged Leitch** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:07 pm

DjSolstice wrote:The actual sounds you use in the first place determine how they will fit into the mix. You can sometimes try all the compression and eq in the world to get your kick to fit better in the mix and seem punchier and phatter, but it just might not have the right set of frequencies in the sound itself, so you end up having to affect the rest of the song to compensate.

Im not sure how you might work, if you are recording a like band and plan on using the original kicks and nothing but those, it can be harder to get the to fit in. Actually layering and engineering kicks is an art which can really make a difference. This also applies to many other key instruments such as the snare or clap. I produce a lot of RnB, Urban music as well as House music. The snare and claps need to cut through the mixes really well, so layeing the sounds with other snares or claps can help the sound cut through. Also continually check how the level of the meter responds when you add instruments. Try nd aim to get a more clear cutting sound without making it rise too much, because it will possibly be the change in volume which is making it cut through rather than the sound tibre itself, therefore when yo uraise the whole track level to mastering levels, the sound will get drowned out.

Sol

Hi Dj, just to point out i appreciate your comments but i didnt mix the track in question, i just had to master it.