Hi All,
I've just brought Har-Bal and have been enjoying getting into the program.
I've read the manual but don't understand how the saturation meter works. I was expecting to play my song (with eq in) and slowly increase the gain until the saturation went too much into the red, but nothing happened.
I guess this isn't how it works.
I'm probably overlooking something obvious but any help is appreciated.
Mike
Brand new user question
Clipping Meter
Mike,
That indeed is how it should work. Is the version you are currently using 1.02 or 1.5 beta 2? Also, when you increase the gain does your track sound like it is being clipped at all?
If the source track is sufficiently low in average level then perhaps Har-Bal hasn't got enough gain to drive it into saturation. If it does have enough gain but the saturation indicator does not light then you've found a bug.
One point that was confusing to a previous user was the colour of the meter. In the tutorial it is "red" but if you're running under windows XP it will come up "green" because the XP new look manifest has hard coded the colour of the meter for some reason. You can revert to the old look by deleting the HarBal.manifest file in the HarBal folder.
Regards,
Paavo.
That indeed is how it should work. Is the version you are currently using 1.02 or 1.5 beta 2? Also, when you increase the gain does your track sound like it is being clipped at all?
If the source track is sufficiently low in average level then perhaps Har-Bal hasn't got enough gain to drive it into saturation. If it does have enough gain but the saturation indicator does not light then you've found a bug.
One point that was confusing to a previous user was the colour of the meter. In the tutorial it is "red" but if you're running under windows XP it will come up "green" because the XP new look manifest has hard coded the colour of the meter for some reason. You can revert to the old look by deleting the HarBal.manifest file in the HarBal folder.
Regards,
Paavo.
-
mtingle
saturation plus
Hi,
[1.5 beta v2]
I've just checked and the meter now behaves as it should, very strange. I'd previously only posted after much testing and couldn't get any action from the meter.
I thought it might be something to do with the fact that I'm using dsound as my driver, so I set up my RME hammerfall ASIO output and the meter is fine there too.
I can't explain why it's o.k. now. Previously I'd turned the same test files up so loud my speakers were crackling! With still no red in the meter.
On a similar but different topic, if I select ASIO drivers then my hammerfall driver from the list I can't get playback to work (press play but nothing happens). If I select mutlimedia then the hammerfall card can be used.
Oh and while I'm here I'd just thought I'd mention that the 'switch between source and reference' button has never become active (i.e. it's always greyed out).
Mike
P.S. I had a vision this morning that I could fly over the 3D frequency landscape that Har-Bal shows in 2D enabling me to see where all the peeks came from in the song.
[1.5 beta v2]
I've just checked and the meter now behaves as it should, very strange. I'd previously only posted after much testing and couldn't get any action from the meter.
I thought it might be something to do with the fact that I'm using dsound as my driver, so I set up my RME hammerfall ASIO output and the meter is fine there too.
I can't explain why it's o.k. now. Previously I'd turned the same test files up so loud my speakers were crackling! With still no red in the meter.
On a similar but different topic, if I select ASIO drivers then my hammerfall driver from the list I can't get playback to work (press play but nothing happens). If I select mutlimedia then the hammerfall card can be used.
Oh and while I'm here I'd just thought I'd mention that the 'switch between source and reference' button has never become active (i.e. it's always greyed out).
Mike
P.S. I had a vision this morning that I could fly over the 3D frequency landscape that Har-Bal shows in 2D enabling me to see where all the peeks came from in the song.
saturation plus
Mike,
Thanks for the feedback. The ASIO driver problem has been reported before. As I don't have a Pro sound card I've had some difficulty testing the ASIO support thoroughly. I put an order in for an M-Audio Audiophile card about two weeks ago but as yet It hasn't arrived at the store where I ordered it from. That's largely what I've been waiting for. Once I have the card I'll hopefully be able to reproduce some problems and get everything working as it should.
On the issue of switch to reference, that is greyed out unless the reference is playable. That is, if you open a .anl file then as a reference then it can't be played so the toggle reference is disabled. However, if you open a wav file as a reference, and provided it has the same sampling rate as the file your EQ'ing then toggle reference will be enabled.
On the subject of your dream, I suppose you're thinking of joint time frequency spectrum analysis (waterfall plots etc). Unfortunately it isn't as simple as that. There is an inexorable link between rate of change of spectrum and resolution bandwidth, such that the faster a time varying spectrum display is updated the less it can resolve spectrally. Because Har-Bal analyzes the entire file and doesn't attempt to make a waterfall plot of it you end up with maximum possible resolution. That is why Har-Bal is superior at uncovering low frequency resonance problems compared with other approaches. On the other hand, we do have plans to provide you with a waterfall view in conjuction with the static spectrum view as an aid but it isn't going to happen just yet.
Regards,
Paavo.
Thanks for the feedback. The ASIO driver problem has been reported before. As I don't have a Pro sound card I've had some difficulty testing the ASIO support thoroughly. I put an order in for an M-Audio Audiophile card about two weeks ago but as yet It hasn't arrived at the store where I ordered it from. That's largely what I've been waiting for. Once I have the card I'll hopefully be able to reproduce some problems and get everything working as it should.
On the issue of switch to reference, that is greyed out unless the reference is playable. That is, if you open a .anl file then as a reference then it can't be played so the toggle reference is disabled. However, if you open a wav file as a reference, and provided it has the same sampling rate as the file your EQ'ing then toggle reference will be enabled.
On the subject of your dream, I suppose you're thinking of joint time frequency spectrum analysis (waterfall plots etc). Unfortunately it isn't as simple as that. There is an inexorable link between rate of change of spectrum and resolution bandwidth, such that the faster a time varying spectrum display is updated the less it can resolve spectrally. Because Har-Bal analyzes the entire file and doesn't attempt to make a waterfall plot of it you end up with maximum possible resolution. That is why Har-Bal is superior at uncovering low frequency resonance problems compared with other approaches. On the other hand, we do have plans to provide you with a waterfall view in conjuction with the static spectrum view as an aid but it isn't going to happen just yet.
Regards,
Paavo.
-
mtingle
saturation
Hi,
On further investigation I found that the files that I tested that saturated as expected were before applying any eq adjustments. As soon as I adjust the songs to be closer to the reference file it becomes impossible to saturate.
Mike
On further investigation I found that the files that I tested that saturated as expected were before applying any eq adjustments. As soon as I adjust the songs to be closer to the reference file it becomes impossible to saturate.
Mike
saturation indicator problem.
Ok, thanks Mike. I'll look into what's wrong and sort it out before the next release.
Regards,
Paavo.
Regards,
Paavo.
saturation indicator problem.
Mike,
I've just tried to reproduce the problem from the brief description you gave but couldn't. Can you explain in a little more detail what you mean by "As soon as I adjust the songs to be closer to the reference file it becomes impossible to saturate"? Also, what is the source file format / bit depth?
Thanks,
Paavo.
I've just tried to reproduce the problem from the brief description you gave but couldn't. Can you explain in a little more detail what you mean by "As soon as I adjust the songs to be closer to the reference file it becomes impossible to saturate"? Also, what is the source file format / bit depth?
Thanks,
Paavo.
-
mtingle
saturation
Hi,
I'm using 32-bit 44khz wav files.
I load in my song, then load the contempory reference file. Using broad q values I then raise the frequency levels to be 'roughly' the same as the contempory reference file (using the red line mostly).
If I raise the gain at this point the song is audibly clipping but no red saturation is shown.
I'm still new to this programme so I might be doing something odd.
Mike
I'm using 32-bit 44khz wav files.
I load in my song, then load the contempory reference file. Using broad q values I then raise the frequency levels to be 'roughly' the same as the contempory reference file (using the red line mostly).
If I raise the gain at this point the song is audibly clipping but no red saturation is shown.
I'm still new to this programme so I might be doing something odd.
Mike
saturation
Ok. Thanks. I'll do some digging to see if I can find the problem.
Regards,
Paavo.
Regards,
Paavo.