Multi-Band Compressing

[Shaw-King]

I been doing some reading and it appears that almost everyone recommends doing some multi-band compressing in the mastering chain. I believe you, Earle, stated somewhere that it should be done after using Har-Bal. Well, I have the Waves C4 Multi-Band Compressor and it confuses the hell outta me. Well, I guess it doesn't confuse me as much as it intimidates me. I have no clue how to use it. Not a single clue. So I stay away from it. Can anyone explain WHY a multiband compressor is useful and HOW to use the Waves C4 properly? In comparison it seems to me that using a compressor such as the Waves Renaissance Compressor sounds better than using the C4. It's probably because I don't know how to use the C4, but regardless I'm still in the dark in regards to multiband compression. I mean, which frequencies need how much compression? How can you tell how much they need? Can someone help me out here?

[Har/Bal]

Send me your telephone number and I will show you the correct way to use it or you can contact me at support@har-bal.com and I will send you the correct procedure.

Earle

[Har/Bal]

Shaw-King

Can you get hold of Waves LMB. It is a much better compressor and easier too use.

Earle

[kinetic]

I have used a couple of software multiband compressors - Dynasone, and the one that ships with Steinberg SX and Wavelab. I haven't had the pleasure of using the Waves one. What strikes me about them is that they seem to add some 'excitement' (ala Aphex, BBE), which I don't like. Also the setting of the compression knees for each band does confuse me too and usually I just go by ear. I only master to get an idea, I'll always have my material professionally mastered if I think the piece is worth it. But it's all a learning experience, and HarBal is certainly helping me with that. I communicated my appreciation for version 1.5 to Paavo in another thread, but thank you to you too Earle.

Aside from the product itself, what impresses me about HarBal (the company) is the quick and thoughtful responses on the forums. Some other vendors should take a leaf out of your book.

[mflorio]

Are you talking about the 'Puncher' in Wavelab ? I like that one a lot on rock tracks - although I usually run the output file back thru HarBal to add some definition back. But I'm like you, my important mixes go through HarBal, then to the mastering house, and they always come back sounding better than I could have done myself. Interestingly, the eq is always the least-affected change in the mastered versions, thanks to HB of course. It's the multi-band compression/limiting/stereoization where I really notice the benefits of outside mastering.

Mike

[Shaw-King]

Hey Earle, thanks for the quick response. My e-mail address is shaw_king@hotmail.com. I send you a little e-mail so that you can just reply to it.

[Shaw-King]

No I was talking about a plugin found in a variety of Waves bundles. It's called the C4. I have not sent anything to mastering houses as of yet because right now I'm only working on promotional mixtapes which I make no money off of. Once I get to working on real albums or when I sell beats, I'll get those mastered. Right now I'm just trying to keep my expenses down.

[Har/Bal]

Shaw-King

I just sent you something.

Earle

[mflorio]

No I was talking about a plugin found in a variety of Waves bundles. It's called the C4.

Actually, my post was in response to Mr. kinetic - but I do seem to remember taking one look at the C4 and getting scared off by the look of it !

[kinetic]

Thanks mflorio - no, I wasn't talking about the Puncher, I was talking about the Multiband Compressor and Dynasone. The Multiband compressor is a Steinberg plugin, from memory first shipped with SX and version 4 of Wavelab. Dynasone is quite old, but similar to the Steinberg plugin.

You must have a good room for the mastering houses not to need to eq your mixes - oops I forgot, you've HarBalised them of course!

I'm a bit confused though, because I'm sure I read that you don't run HarBal as a plugin in Wavelab, but rather process your files in Wavelab and then HarBalise them standalone. So are you saying that you actually use HarBal as a plugin in Wavelab?

It's interesting that you say that one of the improvements you notice with your mixes that are professionally mastered is stereoization. One aspect of mastering that I've seen mastering engineers do (the famous Don Bartley, former engineer with Studios 301 in Sydney) is to change the phase of selected frequencies in a mix, resulting in moving parts more forward or more back in the mix. On that occasion I had a track where the snare was a bit hot, and Don did something by zeroing in on the relevant frequency band and changing the phase (at least that's how her described it). The snare dropped back in the mix and it was a beautiful thing. I haven't seen a plugin anywhere that has this capability (are you listening Earle and Paavo!).

If you're in Australia mflorio, I'd be interested to know what mastering houses you have had experience with.

Thanks for your reply

[HarBal]

Kinetic,

That phase modification to change stereo imaging sounds like an interesting idea to play 'round with. It would be nice to know exactly what he did rather than re-invent the wheel!

I assume your in Australia from your questions. Which part? I guess you know that I'm based in Tasmania?

Paavo.

[Guest]

Yes Paavo, I'm from Sydney. Actually I'll be in Tasmania on Tuesday (Hobart) and Wednesday (Ulverstone and Launceston) on business. It would be great to meet you, but I think I'll be pretty busy. But if you are local to those areas email me a contact phone number (kinetic@optusnet.com.au) if you think you will have the time to say hullo.

I wish I knew what Don did too. He's still working up here - for Sony mastering I think and as far as I know he still has his CD/Record store in Glebe. All I can remember (we're talking about probably 15 years ago!) was that we were mastering to vinyl at Studio 301 (EMI). He was using a Neve desk that was specifically for mastering. I recall not being able to sleep the night before out of fear that my mixes would sound like sh*t in such a famous studio. To my relief Don was very complimentary about the sound and thought the room must have been good. It was a great room and I was using Tannoy Ardens for monitoring, but they had been resiliantly flush mounted into walls angled at the mixing position. That was part of the studio design - I don't know if you know Greg Hooke, but he was the designer. As it turns out Don hardly did anything to the mixes EQ wise - removed a bit of sibilance here and there and treated the snare per my previous post and that was it. Don is a lovely guy and very approachable - if you ever meet him I'm sure he would be happy to discuss some of his methods. If you haven't heard of him before, he used to do all the big mastering in Australia (like Bowie and all the big names). I got to know him when I sat in on a recording session he was engineering for my studio partners band. Come to think of it, I'm sure he'd be interested in HarBal.

Best wishes

[mflorio]

So are you saying that you actually use HarBal as a plugin in Wavelab?

I produce an output file in Wavelab that I then open up in HarBal.

It's interesting that you say that one of the improvements you notice with your mixes that are professionally mastered is stereoization. One aspect of mastering that I've seen mastering engineers do (the famous Don Bartley, former engineer with Studios 301 in Sydney) is to change the phase of selected frequencies in a mix, resulting in moving parts more forward or more back in the mix. On that occasion I had a track where the snare was a bit hot, and Don did something by zeroing in on the relevant frequency band and changing the phase (at least that's how her described it). The snare dropped back in the mix and it was a beautiful thing. I haven't seen a plugin anywhere that has this capability (are you listening Earle and Paavo!).

I'm familiar with what you are describing, but I suspect I'm just hearing the benefits of an upsample to 96k for further digital (and analog) processing at the mastering house. Also, subtle widening of the entire stereo field in general (there are some plugins from Steinberg and Waves that do this really well).

If you're in Australia mflorio, I'd be interested to know what mastering houses you have had experience with. Thanks for your reply

Actually, I'm in New York.

Mike

[Paavo]

Yes Paavo, I'm from Sydney. Actually I'll be in Tasmania on Tuesday (Hobart) and Wednesday (Ulverstone and Launceston) on business. It would be great to meet you, but I think I'll be pretty busy. But if you are local to those areas email me a contact phone number (kinetic@optusnet.com.au) if you think you will have the time to say hullo...

Don is a lovely guy and very approachable - if you ever meet him I'm sure he would be happy to discuss some of his methods. If you haven't heard of him before, he used to do all the big mastering in Australia (like Bowie and all the big names)...
Best wishes

Hi Kinetic,

If I was more observant I would have probably arranged to meet you. I live down in Hobart (actually a bit out of Hobart) but I only noticed your post now I've definitely missed that opportunity.

Yes, I know of Don. He did the mastering on the first commercially successful Whitlams album. On the whole I love the smoothness of that CD. Their follow up album (which he didn't do) is attrocious in my view. Sounds woefully overcompressed with a multiband compressor and the balance shifts all over the place. It is loud though. Funnily enough it was a great commercial success so I suppose sound quality doesn't always count for much.

Maybe when I'm paying more attention we'll have an opportunity to meet.

Cheers,


Paavo.