My band is currently mixing an LP, and there is a bit of muddyness between the guitar/bass and low end drum sounds.
How do I get good separation so that all instruments can be heard clearly?
Wil this act of separation ruin the 'vibe' of the tracks?
Incendently, we're an indie-punk type band with guitar,bass,drums,violin vocal line-up.. The violin seems to be sitting nicely away from the muddyness.
Separation
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long_exposure
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:40 pm
Try rolling off the low end on the guitars at about 120-125. And/or try side chain compressing out some of the guitar at around 120-125 as well. This should clear up some of the mud between these instruments. Heck you can probably roll off on the kick at 40 or 45 as well. (Rolling off at various frequencies for all the drums is usually helpful.)
What does your frequency curve look like when it's analyzed by Har-Bal? I'm guessing you're getting a big "bump" between about 100 and 250.
Yes...Har-Bal can take out the mud but any EQ changes made in mastering will effect all instruments in that range.
What does your frequency curve look like when it's analyzed by Har-Bal? I'm guessing you're getting a big "bump" between about 100 and 250.
Yes...Har-Bal can take out the mud but any EQ changes made in mastering will effect all instruments in that range.
- Keith
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long_exposure
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:40 pm
Hmm.. as I suspected.
Are there any problems will taking bottom end off all the instruments?
Is rolling off frequencies like you say easy to do old mixing consoles?
We;re mixing analogue. ..and I think the studio hasnt got Har-Bal..
..and I'm just a guitarist in the band.. we've found that our mixing engineer isnt too fond of using eq. But if I know what to do, I can just direct him.
Are there any problems will taking bottom end off all the instruments?
Is rolling off frequencies like you say easy to do old mixing consoles?
We;re mixing analogue. ..and I think the studio hasnt got Har-Bal..
..and I'm just a guitarist in the band.. we've found that our mixing engineer isnt too fond of using eq. But if I know what to do, I can just direct him.
Well...a lot of mixing boards have low cut filter buttons on them. You could use those. What board are you using?
The idea is to create space for each instrument in the mix. Your guitars might sound big and chunky by themself, but they could be covering up some of the bass. So if you get rid of some of that low end the bass might come out of the mix more. For example do you really need low end in the hat? I don't think so. So go ahead and roll out the low end on that instrument. Same for the vocal. Anything down below 100 on the vocal is most likely just rumble.
Check out this article on mixing at ProRec.com. It's an old article, but it gives you an idea about how to carve out a mix.
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.n ... enDocument
However, just because someone says to cut or boost an instrument at a certain frequency, doesn't mean it will work in your mix. However, rolling off certain frequencies can solve a lot of problems.
Check out this thread:
http://www.har-bal.com/ipw-web/bulletin ... ng+low+end
The idea is to create space for each instrument in the mix. Your guitars might sound big and chunky by themself, but they could be covering up some of the bass. So if you get rid of some of that low end the bass might come out of the mix more. For example do you really need low end in the hat? I don't think so. So go ahead and roll out the low end on that instrument. Same for the vocal. Anything down below 100 on the vocal is most likely just rumble.
Check out this article on mixing at ProRec.com. It's an old article, but it gives you an idea about how to carve out a mix.
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.n ... enDocument
However, just because someone says to cut or boost an instrument at a certain frequency, doesn't mean it will work in your mix. However, rolling off certain frequencies can solve a lot of problems.
Check out this thread:
http://www.har-bal.com/ipw-web/bulletin ... ng+low+end
- Keith
-
long_exposure
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:40 pm
-
long_exposure
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:40 pm
Separation
Hi all ,
Though not applicable in your situation ( analogue desk ) ... there is another approach to this business of separation ... which uses HB to surgically correct each instrument ... more than 'top'n'tailing' on the desk ...
To explain .... Each instrument will have various peaks/valley in it's spectrum ... These arise from the nature of the instrument , the key it's played in , the acoustics of the recording room , the non-linearities of the mic .....
Within each sound , the peaks will be causing local , if not more profound masking ...
The point here is that any peak able to mask frequencies within that instrument , will be able to similarly mask any other instrument ....
If we use HB to specifically reduce the worst 'peaks' in a signal , it'll lesserly hide other sounds in your mix .... if we carefully eliminate the worst of the 'valleys' , we tend to avoid 'weak' ( easily masked ) frequencies in that instrument ... Do both ... and we have a non-masking , robust instrument sound , with little alteration to it's general timbre ..
It'll hold together , particularly at lower volumes in your mix .. and it'll tend not to mask at higher levels ....
Put a mix togther of sounds , so treated , and your mix will need little , if any corrective eq at mastering ... it'll come off your desk in better state than most commercial product , WRT sound quality , and transportability ...
While not part of your work process , HB , by way of giving you a visual representation , will greatly aid you in determining the errant frequencies in your instrument sounds .... and though you may not use it for the corrections ... will certainly guide you in what corrections to make ...
Cheerz ....
Though not applicable in your situation ( analogue desk ) ... there is another approach to this business of separation ... which uses HB to surgically correct each instrument ... more than 'top'n'tailing' on the desk ...
To explain .... Each instrument will have various peaks/valley in it's spectrum ... These arise from the nature of the instrument , the key it's played in , the acoustics of the recording room , the non-linearities of the mic .....
Within each sound , the peaks will be causing local , if not more profound masking ...
The point here is that any peak able to mask frequencies within that instrument , will be able to similarly mask any other instrument ....
If we use HB to specifically reduce the worst 'peaks' in a signal , it'll lesserly hide other sounds in your mix .... if we carefully eliminate the worst of the 'valleys' , we tend to avoid 'weak' ( easily masked ) frequencies in that instrument ... Do both ... and we have a non-masking , robust instrument sound , with little alteration to it's general timbre ..
It'll hold together , particularly at lower volumes in your mix .. and it'll tend not to mask at higher levels ....
Put a mix togther of sounds , so treated , and your mix will need little , if any corrective eq at mastering ... it'll come off your desk in better state than most commercial product , WRT sound quality , and transportability ...
While not part of your work process , HB , by way of giving you a visual representation , will greatly aid you in determining the errant frequencies in your instrument sounds .... and though you may not use it for the corrections ... will certainly guide you in what corrections to make ...
Cheerz ....
" I hate compression with a vengeance . I avoid it . I'm a great believer in the dynamic range being preserved " Alan Parsons
When u guys say 'roll off' frequencies, do u mean high pass or low shelf (or low pass/ high shelf)??? I get very confused about this still; its one of the major things i havent worked out yet, after 4 years of learning!!! Dohh
The other thing is side-chaining. I kinda understand what it is, but how do u set it up in Cubase SX3? i found a tutorial on this but still couldnt figure it out. Could someone please quickly run through it, if possible
Thanks
The other thing is side-chaining. I kinda understand what it is, but how do u set it up in Cubase SX3? i found a tutorial on this but still couldnt figure it out. Could someone please quickly run through it, if possible
Thanks
Merlin ,
Depends which end of the spectrum you're dealing with ... but they're shelf filters ... low-cut at the bass end ( roll-on ) ... high-cut at the treble ( roll-off ) ...
In Har-Bal you can choose your frequency of rollon/off , and degree of slope with the two shelving functions ....
I can't comment specifically about Cubase , but standardly you'd insert your compressor , and feed the side-chain from the same input signal ( perhaps an aux buss ) .. often with an equaliser on it before the side-chain input ....
For ducking , you'd run the signal of one instrument ( hi-hat ) into the side-chain , and another instrument ( snare ) into the compressor ...... for example ...
Cheerzz ....
Depends which end of the spectrum you're dealing with ... but they're shelf filters ... low-cut at the bass end ( roll-on ) ... high-cut at the treble ( roll-off ) ...
In Har-Bal you can choose your frequency of rollon/off , and degree of slope with the two shelving functions ....
I can't comment specifically about Cubase , but standardly you'd insert your compressor , and feed the side-chain from the same input signal ( perhaps an aux buss ) .. often with an equaliser on it before the side-chain input ....
For ducking , you'd run the signal of one instrument ( hi-hat ) into the side-chain , and another instrument ( snare ) into the compressor ...... for example ...
Cheerzz ....
" I hate compression with a vengeance . I avoid it . I'm a great believer in the dynamic range being preserved " Alan Parsons