Har-Bal Users Forum BBS

A number of crash issues including the mono file one, the temp files appearing on the desktop, drop file support, persistent screen size and position, shortcut keys for selected spectrum and constraint key for adjusting dynamics nodes.

The shortcut keys for the spectrum is to press and hold down the 'S' key and then select a number 1 through 4 corresponding to "left", "right", "mid" and "side".

The constraint key for adjusting dynamics nodes is "0" (zero). Press and hold down the zero key before dragging a node and the horizontal position is then fixed, or should be. I think it might have a minor bug from a test I did just then.

cheers,


Paavo.

When your ears are blocked up from the flu and you cannot tell that 10db of gain at 3k is not really doing anything, HB-3 needs to go into "Suck Mode" and shut itself down and not let me reopen it! ha ha ................

I know where you're coming from!

Being one who suffers from (mild thankfully) chronic sinusitis, I experience a great variability in the quality of my hearing, though it's sometimes hard to say no.

cheers,


Paavo.

After I have worked with a mono file in Har-Bal the rendered file have a crackle sound .
Also , when I try to drag in an mp 3 its not working, works fine with wav files .
All the best
Jan

I rendered a wave file (44.1k/16bit) and noticed that some of the right side had spilled over to the left side. The right side had no spill over. I only used the L/R filters with no compression, Air or M/S filters.

I tried rendering multiple times with the same result every time

Thanks for letting us know. I'll check it out as soon as I can.

I guess I've never noticed it cos I've never actually used L and R filters independently.

cheers,


Paavo.

HarBal wrote:Thanks for letting us know. I'll check it out as soon as I can.

I guess I've never noticed it cos I've never actually used L and R filters independently.

cheers,

Paavo.

I stumbled upon it by using HB3 to tweak my bands backing tracks. It's a stereo wave file with Left side music and Right side click track. The right filter was used to roll off a little low end on the click around 100hz.

ByronSanto wrote:

HarBal wrote:Thanks for letting us know. I'll check it out as soon as I can.

I guess I've never noticed it cos I've never actually used L and R filters independently.

cheers,

Paavo.

I stumbled upon it by using HB3 to tweak my bands backing tracks. It's a stereo wave file with Left side music and Right side click track. The right filter was used to roll off a little low end on the click around 100hz.

Not sure if this will help but the spill over level of the audio on the left side is around -36db. The right side level is -1db.

janpetter wrote:After I have worked with a mono file in Har-Bal the rendered file have a crackle sound .
Also , when I try to drag in an mp 3 its not working, works fine with wav files .
All the best
Jan

Same here on both counts.

I find the GUI slightly counter-intuitive. It's too IT-tech-geek-y.

I was actually hoping for a totally new GUI for the #3 but I guess that may change in the future.

J

Hi Paavo:

I'm having problems opening rendered files in HB 3 (0961). I thought this might be a bug with 094 but this is still happening.

I'll like to compare before and after files I master for my clients, and HB gives me a quick to match volumes and then compare them.

The files peak at -0.3 dB. This also happens with files I've rendered with EQ in HB 3. Occasionally I can get them to open properly by opening another file while it pauses.

Could it be problems with what HB 3 perceives as clipping?

Karl
http://www.about-audio-mastering-software.com/

Hi Karl,

I don't quite follow what you mean.

Mister wrote: I'm having problems opening rendered files in HB 3 (0961).

Does that mean you rendered a file with HB3 and you cannot open the rendered file with HB3? If that is the case, can you send me the file. If you do can you make it a relatively small file (say < 30MB)?

cheers,


Paavo.

Jyri T. wrote: I find the GUI slightly counter-intuitive. It's too IT-tech-geek-y.

I was actually hoping for a totally new GUI for the #3 but I guess that may change in the future.
J

Curious response and I think you'll be bitterly dissappointed!

Mastering is "techincal" and any attempt to master without delving into the technicalities is asking for a half hearted effort. Hence, HarBal 3 is more technical because its technicalities allow you to deal with tracks that HB2.3 just can't handle. However, it's pretty much backward compatible, operation wise, with HB2.3 so you can simply use it in exactly the same manner as HB2.3 and get the same results.

If you want something non-technical I'd suggest finding some other software, and I'm not trying to be rude, just honest. The whole point of the HarBal design philisophy is to uncover the "mystery" of why some tracks are particularly troublesome. In answering such questions I'm afraid it is impossible to avoid becoming "techincal". I'd rather get techincal and understand than stay simple and have no idea and this philosophy isn't going to change.

The software in future will continue to become more capable (and consequently more technical) while still allowing people to utilise it in a simplistic fashion. On the other hand, a lack of documentation is reason enough to find the "technicalities" problematic but hopefully that will become clearer when the documentation is completed, as well as sample filters that clearly demonstrate why the added technicalities offer something more.

cheers,


Paavo.

Uhmm... my comment was about the GUI and workflow, not the subject at hand. Pardon me for my bad communication skills in English. I didn't mean to sound rude.

I meant things like: I always have to struggle when trying to change the "Cursor focus indicator". I still haven't figured out how to change it --- and it should be obvious for the user. Somebody suggested more use of the right hand button on the mouse and contextual menus, and I second that.

If Har Bal were just a one trick pony it didn't make much difference but if you need it for something (now increasingly) more time consuming, the work flow becomes more important. If you use it a lot, you don't want to lose work time. If you use it seldom, you want things to work intuitively so that you soon recall those things that you may have forgotten since the last time.

I work with a lot of different programs and there's no way I can remember a set of oddities for all of them. The more intuitively they work the more I use them. If it dosn't work for me, I'll find an alternative --- if possible.

I thought there would be a possibility to split the song into sections for separate har-bal filters. Was I wrong? Now it seems to work only with the dynamics.

I think a VST option would serve the program so that you could use your favourite plug-ins for, e.g., dithering. Or does HB3 export the files with the max resolution already (in which case it would make no difference if you used a separate program post HB for that)?

Hi Jyri,

No need for appology. I didn't take it offensively.

It helps to be clear about the details and now that you've added some I can see your point of view and the value of some of your suggestions. What was missing in the earlier post was the detailed suggestions.

As to the splits not allowing you to do individual filters for individual sections, it should so either it's a bug or you haven't selected the segment. Note that an earlier build had a playback bug which meant the filters didn't change (though they did when the track was rendered to disk) so you may be using an old build.

cheers,


Paavo.

Me likee!

I've been working a bit with HB3 on material from a local progressive rock band --- songs that have more sections than a US state map. HB3 is really a useful tool for tackling the problems one section at a time.

I haven't used the dynamics part since I prefer using dedicated compressors and/or limiters for that. For one thing, they provide me with the dither option.

The navigation between sections must be a one-clicker. There are two bars visible, why don't you let the user to go from one section to any other instantly. Paavo said earlier that is it so difficult to click twice and I say yes, because a) the designated button is microscopic and, more substantially, b) this way it is really difficult to compare two sections (since you have to jump from a section to whole song and then back to the other section). And for crying out loud, what's the point in deliberately designing your program to be intricate?

I have been able to produce some hickups:

- HB3 crashed on me after I tried to open an HB2 filter.
- The loudness matching seems to be at least occasionally up to a few decibels off (or I unknowingly messed up things).
- The filters acted weirdly a couple of times. I opened a filter and as soon as I engaged it, the limiter indicator jumped to the roof and the song would play like it was compressed to instant death and then some. Reopening the file the second time stopped the weirdness.
- The playback has been acting funny a couple of times (e.g., it sounds thinner that should, after stop and re-play sounds good again).
- Automatic spectrum resizing after an adjustment is a major PITA! Just when you locate the problem part of the spectrum, the program decides to change the scale. I want an option to turn it off!
- The navigation bars act funnily if you click on the upper one while working on a section.

As for personal wishes I would like to second my earlier note on extensive usage of right-hand mouse buttons and contextual menus. Also, none of the buttons have to be miniature.

Any change that improves the work flow gets my kudos, too. A wonderful idea about a feature may not work in every-day reality --- and in that case, just kill your darlings. For example the zoom tools are annoyingly useless. What's wrong with the standard Windows approach with +/- buttons and scroll bars? Please redesign them.

And I still don't know how to change the focus for the cursor...

I would also like to see a possibility to adjust the height of the upper section (where you can see the song dynamics).

PS. I'm using Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit.