Har-Bal Users Forum BBS

I am really curious how good multiband compressing will improve a mix. Here is a link with 3 songs. If someone would be so kind to compress these tunes, I would be so thankful. I am really tempted to by a program, but don't know an affordable/good product. Plus, I'm a person who likes to try it before I buy it. Here's the link if anyone would be willing to help. If you know where there is a multiband compressor that has a 30-day trial, let me know.

Thanks
Frank
http://home.comcast.net/~frkmac1/band.html

Frank

These songs do not need multiband compression.

Most commercial songs are between -12 and 14db's

I was looking at the song "Blame" and noticed it was at -7db's.....the lower the number the louder the song.

Here is what has happened. After you Harbalized the song you applied overall compression to your mix. What it has done is squashed some of the dynamics. It is a dynamite song but there is no room left for it to breathe.

When you use Har-Bal only use a minimum amount of overall compression (although it is really not needed) and then use a limiter.

A multiband compressor actually balances out your track, but do you really need to do this after you have balanced the track with Har-Bal. The answer is no.

Look at the article below by Craig Anderton.

http://www.maulbeerbaum.de/?article=121

You could actually use Har-Bal and then T-Racks using the preset opto+half-inch and you are done.

This will preserve the dynamics of your song and still increase the perceived volume.

Earle

thanks for the critque. I am flattered you like the song. I'll try out your suggestions and let you know. Basically, the song is squashed because I selected the "match loudness" feature by referencing it to a Darkness song (Black Shuck). You've always been helpful... love the tech support.

-Frank

Frank

I use the "match loudness" feature in Har-Bal as a reference for my limiter.

When I use this feature I just write down the gain number from Har-Bal after choosing Match Loudness. I then pull the
fader back to 0.0, record the newly EQ'd file and open the limiter. I then
set the outceiling at -0.1 and the threshold at the number indicated by
har-bal. If there was an increase in Har-Bal of 4.3, I set the threshold
for -4.3. It works every time and the volume level is consistent throughout
the entire album. This is an amazing feature in Har-Bal. I know of no other
tool that does this.

Try it

Earle

that's a neat trick, and I saw that thread elsewhere on the forum. However, do I use a commerical song to determine my limiter setting, or should I use one of my existing songs?

Frank wrote:that's a neat trick, and I saw that thread elsewhere on the forum. However, do I use a commerical song to determine my limiter setting, or should I use one of my existing songs?

Frank

Use a commercial song as a reference.

Earle

Hi there - my first posting here so HELLO folks

Earle, I'm going to try your TRacks idea out on a track .. just so I've got this straight would you be kind enough to tell me if this is the right way to go :

1) Take the rough mix (no mastering compression/limit etc) and give it to HarBal for a good old seeing to.

2) Make a reference file from a commercial CD and match the HarBal'd tracks loudness to it - make a note of the figure & reset the gain to 0.0

3) Give the track to TRacks and call up the Opto+Half-Inch preset

4) Set the TRacks limiter to reflect the loudness figures indicated by HarBal

- should that be it?

Cheers

Thalamus

That technique will work quite well. There is one thing though. If you mix down to -3db you will not have to use the "match loudness" function. So you would do this:

1. Make sure your track is mixed down to -3db so you will have headroom.
2. Load your track into Har-Bal and determine whether you should use a reference or not. See the "Tip" below
3. Sculpt your spectrum and record the newly eq'd file.
4. Open your song in T-Racks and choose the preset you mentioned earlier but don't change any of the settings.
5. Process the file and you are done.

I guarantee you that when you look at the wave file it will appear as a work of art. Loud and Proud with no distortion or clipping.

To use a reference file or not use a reference file, that is the question....


Tip: If your song was mixed down well look at your track and observe the out of place peaks on the yellow line. Make sure you have a nice slope on the green line starting at the lowest frequency of your song and moving to the right downward http://www.har-bal.com/images/goodtrack.JPG
You are all set....and don't need to use a reference file.

Now if you load your track into Har-Bal and it looks pretty banged up then yes it would be time to load a reference file as a guide to help get you into the ballpark.

Remember this though...

When using a reference file only make adjustments to the spectrum that YOUR song covers. Anything outside of that is usually masked frequencies and should really be left alone. Of course there is no rules though.

Oh!! One more thing. It isn't a bad idea to use the low shelving filter and put a slope at the 40hz mark. This is another secret that allows you to have a louder track. When you have energy in the lower bass region that usually can't be heard it acts as dead weight for your track and makes the limiter work even harder.

There are a number of compressors and limiters out there on the market I am sure folks can use but the tools mentioned above work everytime and it is economical.

Try it and let me know

Cheers

Earle

I'm having a little newbie style trouble here...

I have sorted out my track in Har-Bal and I *love* the result! - The track sounds great in HarBal but when I export it to a WAV file and load it into Wavelab there are really big peaks with clipping .. so it's obviously overcooked in Har-Bal.

I wonder if you could tell me what settings in HarBal would produce a file without this clipping.

I'm nearly there with this! Big grins all round.

Thalamus

One of two things is happening.

1. The song was mixed down too loud prior to opening it in Har-Bal.

2. You are using the match loudness feature and you don't need to.

Question: What is the saturation meter doing when you are playing the song in Har-Bal?

You may need to turn down the "gain" fader in Har-Bal.

Would it be possible for you to send us a 10 second clip. Just convert it to mp3 and send it to nospam-support@har-bal.com.

Remove the "nospam" in the email address.

We will analyze the file for you.

Earle

Earle, thanks for this - Actually the source file was recorded too hot so I remedied this by :

1) turning down the gain on HarBal output
2) Importing the file into Nuendo and lowering the level once more
3) Feeding the track into TRacks and telling the limiter to makeup 6db

It felt a bit like shoe-horning but the result was great - not so bad because everything was kept at 24bit. Had it been a 16bit file I suspect I'd have needed to go back to the original mix and sort the level problem out there.

All you have to remember to do is make sure the source file levels are correct before you start the mastering process.

When a client brings me their CD and it is way to hot I will always advise them to go back to the mix and correct it. Sometimes they can't because they recorded all of their individual tracks in the red and the distortion is terrible. In this case it is beyond repair.

I always tell folks to never go any higher than the top of the green when recording.

Earle

Hi, first post .. I was going to start a new thread, but this thread looks appropriate enough. Sorry for the long post, but I want to be detailed.

I am evaluating Har-Bal.

Here is where I am at as an "engineer" (I apply the term loosly ): I've been using Sonar 2.2 for a while now to record. I've never really mastered my tracks with dedicated tools. What I do now is put a compressor and some EQ on the stereo mix (The Timeworks plugins that came with Sonar 2.x), mix-down and it is off to a conversion program to make various formats for listening (several MP3 encodings and CD mainly).

For reference, this is my latest completed project:

The Sudden Squall (Rock Instrumental)

There was a lot to learn to get to this point, and now I want to more solidly understand and perform mastering. It seems I should be looking at better final EQ and limiting. I have download Har-Bal eval, read the manual, and used the song above to learn the interface. I evaluated for a couple of hours. I really like what the way this program is capable of helping me.

What other tools should I be evaluating that are a good compliment to Har-Bal? (limiters, compressors, etc.). I suppose mainly what I am looking for after Har-Bal is a Limiter and I need some suggestions.

Should I be removing the Compressor and EQ on my stereo mix in Sonar before using Har-Bal and a limiter? Does doing so mean that I will also need a stand-alone compressor, or is a Limiter really what I should be using in the place of a compressor? (I'm not well versed yet in using a Limiter, I can't yet discern the difference). Does it make sense to leave the compressor plugin on the Sonar stereo mix if I already get satisfactory results (will I get better results having a compressor before or after Har-Bal)?

Joe

There are a number of compressors and limiters than can follow Har-Bal, but there is one I highly recommend. That is T-Racks

They actually have a preset under their "Suite" category named
half inch+opto.

When you have finished correcting the spectral content of your track in Har-Bal you simply feed it into T-Racks (24bit of course) and choose the preset mentioned above.

It will automatically set the outceiling in the limiter to -0.1 and threshold will be adjusted accordingly. It also gives a great tape saturation emulation

The multiiband compressor is very nice. I think you would be quite surprised at the results.

My suggestion is this:

Find someone that has T-Racks and try it after harbalizing one of your songs.

Cheers

Earle

I have been trying the T-Racks demo today after seeing it mentioned. I do like the Limiter there (and I am getting more versed it these mastering tools). I'll try that preset. Thanks!