Bouncing / Exporting Mixdown ?

[vojd]

Hi there !

I have a question that's been bugging me for a while. I use Cubase Sx and I intend to export my mixdown , get it into Har-Bal for EQ , use Record As to export once more , and then get it into Cubase again for multiband compression & limiting.

That would be 3 consecutive exports to get to the very final.....my question is - how does each consecutive export affect the quality of the track ? Do I loose something in terms of quality when I bounce something already bounced...doesn't it get played back and resampled every time I bounce - either in Cubase or in Har-Bal?

I take it there's no way of using plugins inside Har-bal , so I have to ask

Sorry if this is a stupid question , I am not etirely clear with the theory that's why I am posting my question here.

[HarBal]

Provided you use a lossless format that you export to (24 bit PCM wav files for instance) then you'll experience no degradation attributable to exporting and importing. In fact, there will be no more degradation than what you would experience if processing through a plugin only.

The tpye of degradation you are referring to occurs only when the format exported to has a lower resolution than the resolution of the source data.

Regards,


Paavo.

[electro]

Is Har-Bal bit transparent (will the vst plugin be) when no eq has been applied? How about when two equally opposite curves are applied?

[Jay]

Is Har-Bal bit transparent

You can find out on your own by trying the following. Place some wav file in your audio app. Perform the Har-bal functions you mentioned on a duplicate of the file. Then place the Har-balized file on another track at the exact same point in the timeline in your audio app and flip the phase of that track. If you hear nothing, you know Har-bal didn't affect the file. You can test the validity of this by placing an unaffected duplicate of your file on another track and flipping the phase (make sure to mute the Har-balized track!). You should hear nothing. If you hear something, either your audio app isn't properly flipping the phase, or you didn't place the file at the exact same point on the timeline.

Jay

[HarBal]

Excuse me Electro, but what exactly is bit transparent? Sounds like one of those essentially meaningless marketing labels.

Sorry if I'm sounding skeptical, but basically any useful processing applied to anything by digital or analog means will add noise. In digital systems rounding is the source. The only digital process that will not add noise is base 2 volume control, but that makes for a very uninspiring and limiting bit of DSP. On the other hand, the level of noise that HarBal adds is very small (around -120dB down) so it practically irrelevant.

We certainly haven't had any reports of added noise being a problem, except in cases where 16 bit wav files were used, and in that case the origin of the noise is truncation made worse by the non-inclusion of a dither. Use a 24 bit file and you wont have a problem.

Regards,


Paavo.

[Jay]

Paavo,

I think what electro is concerned about is that some plugins alter the signal even when they're at a "neutral" setting (although I wouldn't consider his reference to "opposite curves" to come under this category). I'm not as concerned as electro is about this cuz I just bypass an effect if it's not doing any processing. Even though the effects of a plugin on a signal are typically minimal when the plug is in "neutral" (I have noticed plugs where this is not the case, however), it's still a reasonable question, IMO. But like I said, for practical purposes, he can find this out on his own. I mean, if one bit gets altered but you can't hear any signal after doing the test I mentioned, who cares about that one bit alteration?

Jay

[HarBal]

Jay,

Thanks for filling me in on what it means.

Cheers,


Paavo.