Har-Bal Users Forum BBS

Earle,

What would you consider the "typical" RMS level range to be of commercial "pop" music -- i.e., artists such as Celine Dion, Josh Groban, Michael Buble, etc.?

Tom

Green Day's 'American Idiot' is at -4.5 dB RMS.

This is the loudest record I have ever heard.

I seem to remember a recent James Taylor CD at about -9 dB RMS.

Of course, Green Day's record is made to hit you smack dab in the center of your head a pulverize you.

tcatzere wrote:Earle,

What would you consider the "typical" RMS level range to be of commercial "pop" music -- i.e., artists such as Celine Dion, Josh Groban, Michael Buble, etc.?

Tom

The usual RMS level is between 10 and 13db's. It is also dependent of the music. classical music does not need to be loud.
Fortunately, it appears that we are seeing more songs with a lower RMS level and the need to preserve the nuanes (dynamics) of the music.

Most of the music I do for most companies are now happy to have the RMS level between 11 and 13db's.

Earle

har-bal wrote:

tcatzere wrote:
Most of the music I do for most companies are now happy to have the RMS level between 11 and 13db's.

Earle

Earle,

I assume that when you refer to these RMS levels, you're talking about "average" levels (not maximum, minimum or total RMS levels). Is that correct?

Tom

tcatzere wrote:

har-bal wrote:

tcatzere wrote:
Most of the music I do for most companies are now happy to have the RMS level between 11 and 13db's.

Earle

Earle,

I assume that when you refer to these RMS levels, you're talking about "average" levels (not maximum, minimum or total RMS levels). Is that correct?

Tom

Tom

I am referring to the average RMS level.

Earle

Revision on that JT CD, it's about -13 dB. Lots of dynamics.

Green Day's is still at -4.5 dB.

I can usually only take about 3 tracks - no matter the playback volume.

zumbido wrote:Revision on that JT CD, it's about -13 dB. Lots of dynamics.

Green Day's is still at -4.5 dB.

I can usually only take about 3 tracks - no matter the playback volume.

Zumbido

That is amazing. Why would anyone want their album that loud? It must be crushed all to hell.

Earle

Earle,

I had either sent to you or posted a screen capture of what a few tracks from this Green Day album looked like after I had imported them into Pro Tools.

You commented that they looked like a 2x4.

One can't argue with the success of this particular album. They know their market. It's at about 4 million units so far.

It is hard to listen to more than a few tracks. But then again, I'm not an angry, hyped 19 year-old - anymore,

I'm VERY much looking forward to Har-Bal 2.0. It sounds like it automatically does what I've been using 1.5 to do - to check my mixes so that I can re-mix and re-mix and re-mix.

Francis Ford Coppola once commented that his greatest talent was the ability to re-work something over and over until he ended up with something that was 'okay'. My mantra for sure.

I've always used SoundForge to check RMS levels. A few months ago I upgraded from ver 5.0 to ver 8.0, and noticed that the RMS readings are sometimes 2-3 db closer to zero on v8 compared to what v5 would report on the same source material ? Has anybody noticed this ? Anyway, what app are you guys using ? I've always thought -12 is a good level to shoot for. I'm especially interested because I'm about to release a rock album and would like to give the mastering engineer a general guideline.

Mike

mflorio wrote:I've always used SoundForge to check RMS levels. A few months ago I upgraded from ver 5.0 to ver 8.0, and noticed that the RMS readings are sometimes 2-3 db closer to zero on v8 compared to what v5 would report on the same source material ? Has anybody noticed this ? Anyway, what app are you guys using ? I've always thought -12 is a good level to shoot for. I'm especially interested because I'm about to release a rock album and would like to give the mastering engineer a general guideline.

Mike

Mike

I have version 6 of Sound Forge. a RMS level between 11 and 12 is safe for a Rock album. It will still enable you to preserve the track's nuances.

When I check the RMS level in both Sound Forge and Wavelab they are the same.

Earle

For anyone interested:

http://www.cs.wfu.edu/~burg/nsf-due-034 ... ksheet.pdf

tcatzere wrote: I assume that when you refer to these RMS levels, you're talking about "average" levels (not maximum, minimum or total RMS levels). Is that correct?
Tom

RMS is by definition an average. There is no such thing as max or min RMS. See the pdf in my previous post.

Mike