quick question about the new har-bal/intuitQ

[adamlloyd83]

ok, just a quick question...

after hours and hours of experimenting i've decided to use the waves L3 (after some light multiband comp) over numerous other limiters because it seems to retain the most overall punch and clarity..

i was noticing however that i was still getting distortion in spots on the tracks without pushing them very loud, which was an indication to me that there were transients in there that were still a problem even after harbalizing the mix..

so my question is...i've started harbalizing the instrument mixes and the vocal mixes separately, using the HB alpha intuitQ and the illiminating any other peaks with the peak button...overall i think the mixes sound smoother (i haven't gotten to the actual mastering part yet) but it sounds so different my tired ears don't know what to make of it (even getting a good night sleep doesnt do much at this point)...but are there any indications you would know of that would mean avoid doing it this way? also, after bouncing the harbalized instruments and vox together, I was going to harbalize the final mix before mastering...is this overkill?

i'm sure i could figure this out eventually but i'd really like to spare myself another 80 hours of trial and error on these 22 tracks!! :-X thanks for your help

adam

[har-bal]

ok, just a quick question...

after hours and hours of experimenting i've decided to use the waves L3 (after some light multiband comp) over numerous other limiters because it seems to retain the most overall punch and clarity..

i was noticing however that i was still getting distortion in spots on the tracks without pushing them very loud, which was an indication to me that there were transients in there that were still a problem even after harbalizing the mix..

so my question is...i've started harbalizing the instrument mixes and the vocal mixes separately, using the HB alpha intuitQ and the illiminating any other peaks with the peak button...overall i think the mixes sound smoother (i haven't gotten to the actual mastering part yet) but it sounds so different my tired ears don't know what to make of it (even getting a good night sleep doesnt do much at this point)...but are there any indications you would know of that would mean avoid doing it this way? also, after bouncing the harbalized instruments and vox together, I was going to harbalize the final mix before mastering...is this overkill?

i'm sure i could figure this out eventually but i'd really like to spare myself another 80 hours of trial and error on these 22 tracks!! :-X thanks for your help

adam

Adam

I understand what you mean, but here is something to consider. It is not really necessary to harbalize each individual track.

Here is the issue. Most folks don't realize that each individual instrument/vocal has their own frequency space. Below is a technique I use for mixing.

1. Download the following chart from www.hdqtrz.com/Files/frequencies.pdf

You can also use The frequency chart here http://www.har-bal.com/frequency.php

2. Notice that each instrument exists in their own frequency space.

3. Use high and low pass filters to shave off the areas to the front and rear of the sound outside their frequency range.

For instance a Bass (vocal) covers the frequency range from 87.31hz thru 329.63hz

4. If you do this with each instrument then your mixing would be a piece of cake.

There are three more areas to concentrate on which is what mixing really is. The idea is to reflect our 3d world.

1. Volume = Up and down

2. Panning = Left and right (DO NOT PLACE more than one item in the same position)

3. Reverb = Front to rear (the more reverb the further back in the mix an instrument resides and visa versa.

Concentrating on these 3 areas gives your track a sound of 3d realsim.

The next thing to remember is that any sound that is percussive (drum, bass, techno keyboard, etc) should be centered at 12:00. The exception here is the lead vocal of course which should always be centered.

All other instruments/sounds should be positioned in the mix the same way they would in the real world if you were look at them on a stage.

Try it and let us know how you are coming along.

Cheers

Earle

[adamlloyd83]

Earle,

I have been remixing everything with these techniques and the difference is phenomenal. I found that especially on the bottom ends of all the tracks, there's a bunch of unnecessary "stuff" that you don't really hear but that sounds muddy when you lay 40-50 tracks on top of eachother...I also found that if I you let the kick and bass intruments take care of the bottom end and shave it off just about everything else, the clarity improves 300 percent

thanks for your tips! i'll post some clips when im done.

adam

[har-bal]

Earle,

I have been remixing everything with these techniques and the difference is phenomenal. I found that especially on the bottom ends of all the tracks, there's a bunch of unnecessary "stuff" that you don't really hear but that sounds muddy when you lay 40-50 tracks on top of eachother...I also found that if I you let the kick and bass intruments take care of the bottom end and shave it off just about everything else, the clarity improves 300 percent

thanks for your tips! i'll post some clips when im done.

adam

Adam

By all means post your tips so the rest of the world can find usefulness with them.

Thanks

Earle

[Alt 3-4]

Hi Har-bal,

It's very interesting and I'm really satisfied because I was searching for this kind of tip.
But what about a synthesizer? When I want to use a Violin preset sound, does this need a specific eq or am I to eq it like a real violin?

[har-bal]

Hi Har-bal,

It's very interesting and I'm really satisfied because I was searching for this kind of tip.
But what about a synthesizer? When I want to use a Violin preset sound, does this need a specific eq or am I to eq it like a real violin?

Adam

Just eq as though it were a regular violin and then ...while your entire mix is playing fine tune if necessary. Normally it isn't a good idea to equalize individual instruments. You usually want to eq instruments while all the other tracks are playing. This way it is easier to blend it into the entire mix.
For instance a snare may have a loud pop by itself but when you incorporate it into a mix it may be softened somewhat.

Cheers

Earle

[adamlloyd83]

earle,

ok so i thought i was in the clear but i just spent two days trying to master half the tracks...they sounded pretty decent on the krk monitors, good on the headphones, but then on car stereos and a dance rehearsal hall system it sounded pretty horrid...

after shelving the eq's of each instrumental track i noticed a definite improvement in smoothness and clarity on the instrumental halves of the mixes, then it was just a matter of combining with the vocal sessions...I'm just trying to figure out if I'm screwing up somewhere in the mixing or somewhere in the mastering.

is there any way i can send you an unmastered track or a clip of a track so you can tell me if you hear any problems in the mix? the only problem i can hear is some phasiness in the vocals, but i know the label is going to be having the singers redo a lot them at a later date...besides, the main problem im having with the masters seems to be in EQ--the tracks look awesome in har-bal and yet sound like a nightmare elsewhere. eek!

thanks,
adam

[har-bal]

earle,

ok so i thought i was in the clear but i just spent two days trying to master half the tracks...they sounded pretty decent on the krk monitors, good on the headphones, but then on car stereos and a dance rehearsal hall system it sounded pretty horrid...

after shelving the eq's of each instrumental track i noticed a definite improvement in smoothness and clarity on the instrumental halves of the mixes, then it was just a matter of combining with the vocal sessions...I'm just trying to figure out if I'm screwing up somewhere in the mixing or somewhere in the mastering.

is there any way i can send you an unmastered track or a clip of a track so you can tell me if you hear any problems in the mix? the only problem i can hear is some phasiness in the vocals, but i know the label is going to be having the singers redo a lot them at a later date...besides, the main problem im having with the masters seems to be in EQ--the tracks look awesome in har-bal and yet sound like a nightmare elsewhere. eek!

thanks,
adam

Adam

It sounds like a mixing issue. Give me about two days and send us the file through the www.yousendit.com link and we will take a look at it. Currently we are tied up with the Har-Bal 2.0 project and making sure our customers have received it okay.

Thanks

Earle

[adamlloyd83]

earle,

thank you, that would be awesome...I will send a clip through that site this week, whenever you have time is cool no worries.

thanks again!!
adam

[adamlloyd83]

Earle,

I was finally able to send the song...My apologies for the delay...

I use a lot of mutliband compressors in mixing and I realized that my Q and Knee values were too low/soft...I think that's been at least part of the problem...I remixed the tracks again and they definitely sound better but im reluctant to attempt the mastering all over unless there aren't any other major mix problems...

I left the track unharballed, just the raw final mixdown, dithered to 16 bits and encoded mp3..

Thank you very much for your help

adam

[har-bal]

Earle,

I was finally able to send the song...My apologies for the delay...

I use a lot of mutliband compressors in mixing and I realized that my Q and Knee values were too low/soft...I think that's been at least part of the problem...I remixed the tracks again and they definitely sound better but im reluctant to attempt the mastering all over unless there aren't any other major mix problems...

I left the track unharballed, just the raw final mixdown, dithered to 16 bits and encoded mp3..

Thank you very much for your help

adam

Adam

Just downloaded, listened and tested the track. I can't imagine what else needs to be done to it. The stereo image is perfect. Checked the oscilloscope and there is zero distortion. The spectral content is balanced. All energy is dispersed evenly. Checked the stereo phase of all frequencies and they are correct. The RMS levels are very decent (-20dbs on both sides...safe to add -7db more)

I guess Paavo and I should look for a new line of work, huh. You guys don't need us anymore

Besides the fact that it is a very nice song, it sounds DAMN good as well

You did a great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am sending you the file via the yousendit.com link with a few things done to it.

Cheers

Earle

[adamlloyd83]

Earle,

Your reaction to the track has made my year I'm really glad I'm doing everything right now, I guess the problems I was having had to do with not compressing the tracks correctly in the mix...

In regard to the file you sent back...The sound is huge, vocals are crystal clear...Can I ask what processes you applied to it? It sounds harbalized in comparison with the raw track...very clear. Could that be accomplished with the IntuitQ feature alone, or would it require manual manipulation in addition? I think it sounds like the "air" slider was used as well, kind of opens up the space, makes the vocal reverb slightly more present..

Oh, and..which limiter did you use?

Thanks again :)

Adam

[doogle]

Earle,

I was finally able to send the song...My apologies for the delay...

I use a lot of mutliband compressors in mixing and I realized that my Q and Knee values were too low/soft...I think that's been at least part of the problem...I remixed the tracks again and they definitely sound better but im reluctant to attempt the mastering all over unless there aren't any other major mix problems...

I left the track unharballed, just the raw final mixdown, dithered to 16 bits and encoded mp3..

Thank you very much for your help

adam

Adam

Just downloaded, listened and tested the track. I can't imagine what else needs to be done to it. The stereo image is perfect. Checked the oscilloscope and there is zero distortion. The spectral content is balanced. All energy is dispersed evenly. Checked the stereo phase of all frequencies and they are correct. The RMS levels are very decent (-20dbs on both sides...safe to add -7db more)

I guess Paavo and I should look for a new line of work, huh. You guys don't need us anymore

Besides the fact that it is a very nice song, it sounds DAMN good as well

You did a great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am sending you the file via the yousendit.com link with a few things done to it.

Cheers

Earle

Hi Earle

Would you be kind enough to shed some light into how you checked the distortion with an oscilloscope? is that what an oscilloscope does.


Also how did you do this = Checked the stereo phase of all frequencies and they are correct.
and this = All energy is dispersed evenly

Many thanks.

[har-bal]

Earle,

Your reaction to the track has made my year I'm really glad I'm doing everything right now, I guess the problems I was having had to do with not compressing the tracks correctly in the mix...

In regard to the file you sent back...The sound is huge, vocals are crystal clear...Can I ask what processes you applied to it? It sounds harbalized in comparison with the raw track...very clear. Could that be accomplished with the IntuitQ feature alone, or would it require manual manipulation in addition? I think it sounds like the "air" slider was used as well, kind of opens up the space, makes the vocal reverb slightly more present..

Oh, and..which limiter did you use?

Thanks again :)

Adam

Adam

No problem. I used the process here:

http://www.har-bal.com/ipw-web/bulletin ... .php?t=576

Cheers

Earle

[har-bal]

Earle,

I was finally able to send the song...My apologies for the delay...

I use a lot of mutliband compressors in mixing and I realized that my Q and Knee values were too low/soft...I think that's been at least part of the problem...I remixed the tracks again and they definitely sound better but im reluctant to attempt the mastering all over unless there aren't any other major mix problems...

I left the track unharballed, just the raw final mixdown, dithered to 16 bits and encoded mp3..

Thank you very much for your help

adam

Adam

Just downloaded, listened and tested the track. I can't imagine what else needs to be done to it. The stereo image is perfect. Checked the oscilloscope and there is zero distortion. The spectral content is balanced. All energy is dispersed evenly. Checked the stereo phase of all frequencies and they are correct. The RMS levels are very decent (-20dbs on both sides...safe to add -7db more)

I guess Paavo and I should look for a new line of work, huh. You guys don't need us anymore

Besides the fact that it is a very nice song, it sounds DAMN good as well

You did a great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am sending you the file via the yousendit.com link with a few things done to it.

Cheers

Earle

Hi Earle

Would you be kind enough to shed some light into how you checked the distortion with an oscilloscope? is that what an oscilloscope does.


Also how did you do this = Checked the stereo phase of all frequencies and they are correct.
and this = All energy is dispersed evenly

Many thanks.

Doogle

I used the meter below:

You can download it from the link below. It is a metering tool and it is free.
http://voyager.adsl.dk/knef/vumeter/

Cheers

Earle